The History Book Club discussion

This is the Introduction thread for the upcoming group discussion on the book All Quiet on the Western Front.

This discussion will begin on May 2nd, 2011.

Erich Maria Remarque

An Amazon Review by Jeffrey Leach:

Erich Maria Remarque (1898-1970) served in World War I, where he received wounds five times in battle. The searing images of trench warfare left indelible scars on Remarque, who then attempted to exorcize his demons through the writing of literature.

"All Quiet on the Western Front" is Remarque's most memorable book, although he wrote nine others dealing with the miseries of war.

"All Quiet on the Western Front" is the story of Paul Baumer, a young German soldier serving in the trenches in France. Baumer's story is not a pleasant one; he volunteered for the war when his instructor in school, Kantorek, urged the class to join up for the glory of Germany.

After a rigorous period of military training (where Paul and his buddies meet the hated drill instructor Himmelstoss, a recurring character throughout the book), Baumer and his friends go to the front as infantrymen. Filled with glorious ideas about war by authority figures back home, Baumer quickly discovers that the blood-drenched trenches of the Western Front are a quagmire of misery and violent death.

As soon as the first shells explode in the mud Paul and his friends realize everyone back home is a liar, that war is not the glorious transformation of boys into men but rather the systematic destruction of all that is decent and healthy.

As Paul's friends slip away one by one through death, desertion, and injury, Paul begins to wonder about his own life and whether he will survive not only the war but also a world without war.

Remarque's book exposes all of the insanities of war. The incongruities of violent battle versus long periods of boredom repeatedly appear throughout the book. On one day, Paul and his friends sit around discussing mundane topics; the next day they are bashing French skulls during an offensive. It is these extremes that caused so many problems with the psychological disposition of the men. In one chapter of the book, Paul and several new recruits, hunkered down in a dugout, withstand hour upon hour of continuous shellfire until one of the green recruits snaps and tries to make a run for freedom. Where else but in a war could one walk through a sea of corpses while enjoying the sunshine and the gentle cadences of the birds in the trees? That such an unnatural activity as mass murder takes place surrounded by the natural beauty of the world is a theme found in many World War I authors and poets. Remarque's book is noteworthy because he does a better job of showing this strange duality than other writers.

Also of interest is that this book views the war from the German side. From what I read recently, the Germans had a tough time throughout the war with rations, troop rotations away from the front, and supplies. This is apparent in Remarque's treatment of the German war effort, especially toward the end of the book when Germany begins to retreat in the face of overwhelming American military power. Paul's remarks about the evil presence of tanks are an interesting insight into the effect those iron behemoths had on the ill-equipped and exhausted Germans.

The cover of this edition trumpets this as "the greatest war novel of all time." And so it is, but not in the way some people might think.

This is the greatest war novel ever because Remarque's book is anti-war.

Those that read "All Quiet on the Western Front" will see warfare stripped of its flag waving, parades, and John Wayne glory.

War is death, with the glory going to the few who survive.

Remarque makes a brilliant contribution to world literature with this riveting novel.

As the moderator for this book, I want you all to know I am really looking forward to some deep discussions as we read. I've read the book multiple times in the past, but never had anyone to talk with about it. There will be a lot to discuss about the insanities of war, as you can see if you read the review in Message 2. I'd also like to discuss how Remarque chose to get his message across. Is it effective? What would Remarque have written if he had lived thirty years later, i.e. WWII rather than WWI? Does reading this book change your life?

In addition, this book was originally written in German, so I read an English translation. If people are reading in other translations or other languages, I'd be interested to see if a different choice of words changes the story, the feel of the book, or the intensity at all.

Of course, being The History Book Club, we'll want to match up the events in the book, as described by a German private, with the historical accounts we have with our semi-omniscient vision of the war. I hope you join us.

Very nice post Elizabeth; I have read this book many times; it is quite moving and thought provoking.

Great intro Elizabeth, I'd love to be able to read this with you but I am already booked out for May :(

If it’s OK I'd like to drop in once and while to chat about general issues with WW1 as your discussion progresses.

Oh, certainly, AR, please join in whenever. Your thoughts and perspective are always welcome and valuable. If you ever do read the book, I'd be curious what you think of it.

Bentley wrote: "An Amazon Review by Jeffrey Leach:

Erich Maria Remarque (1898-1970) served in World War I, where he received wounds five times in battle. The searing images of trench warfare left indelible scars ..."

Looking forward to this. I read All Quiet as a young man (and will, of course, be re-reading it). I forget most of it. I'll have to clear my plate and get ready!

Elizabeth S wrote: "(...) In addition, this book was originally written in German, so I read an English translation. If people are reading in other translations or other languages, I'd be interested to see if a different choice of words changes the story, the feel of the book, or the intensity at all..."

Hi, I am a German, so I know the book only in German language. There is already a difference in the title. The English title "All Quiet on the Western Front" is a quiet war situation, the German title "Im Westen nichts Neues" is a succinct statement of the supreme army command because the war's day brought no change in the front line.
The English title does not show the cynicism of the message.

Baseni wrote: "Elizabeth S wrote: "The English title "All Quiet on the Western Front" is a quiet war situation, the German title "Im Westen nichts Neues" is a succinct statement of the supreme army command because the war's day brought no change in the front line.
The English title does not show the cynicism of the message."

Interesting: I had always thought the title was a lie, i.e. that despite the death tolls and ravages of the war, the Germans at home were being told that "All's quiet on the Western front!" I never really thought that there was a quiet war situation. So apparently, I got the right impression, albeit in the wrong way!

Thank you Baseni for your post. I think I am in the same boat as Tanya. But your explanation is very interesting and since I never saw the German version with its title; I never saw the differences in nuance with the translation. Since I had studied German I would have seen the meaning right away. Not quiet; but nothing new. How different.

Baseni wrote: "Elizabeth S wrote: "(...) In addition, this book was originally written in German."

Hi Baseni, I speak both languages and although I read the book first in German and later a large part in English I never saw the difference you're hinting at. To me it always was exactly the same statement made by the same people. I even thought the English title was more cynical - if only just a little...
But whatever - thanks for showing us.

Andre, wikipedia had also mentioned what Baseni stated which is something to consider when reading the book:

The 1930 English translation by Arthur Wesley Wheen gives the title as All Quiet on the Western Front. The literal translation of "Im Westen nichts Neues" is "Nothing New in the West," with "West" being the war front; the phrase refers to the content of an official communiqué at the end of the novel.

Brian Murdoch's 1993 translation would render the phrase as "there was nothing new to report on the western front" within the narrative. Explaining his retention of the original book-title, he says:

Although it does not match the German exactly, Wheen's title has justly become part of the English language and is retained here with gratitude.

The phrase "all quiet on the western front" later became popular slang for lack of action, initially reference to the Phoney War on World War II's Western Front, but latterly in reference to anything from sport to politics.

Source: Wikipedia

Entire article:



And here is a copy of the first edition cover:

Thanks, Bentley.
If you would have translated it word for word it might have been just that - a direct translation - but it would not get the sarcasm.
That's why I never thought twice about the ENglish title. Because to me it carried the same thing. I never took it word for word and did not think it was meant that way. "All quiet" to me was a nice try of the translator to bring "nichts Neues" across. I never thought he was talking of bombs or birdsong...
Maybe just because I'm fluent in both languages and read the German one first I had no trouble with it - I don't know.

In a way this discussion reminds me of poetry translations where the translators have to change so many things to get the original across: the language, the rhythm, the rhyme - oh - did I forget something - right, the meaning, too.... It's the toughest job.

You are making me smile Andre. The book is powerful no matter what the title was, or is and no matter what language it is read in.

(view spoiler)[Having read the book, the phrase that is used in the English version is of course stated in the book but what it comes to mean in relation to the major character is of course sad and sardonic and I think from my viewpoint that is the point. (hide spoiler)]

I was hoping to achieve that - the smile I mean.
And yes, it is a powerful book.
I remember after finishing it I read a book with just the letters the German Jewish soldiers sent back to their families. (Sorry, I forgot the title)
And then I watched the film Un Long Dimanche de Fiancailles.
I got sick afterward. I never have read about /watched such a concentrated amount of insanity ever before. And I decided I wouldn't want to ever again.
I'm from the south of Holland, very close to the Belgian border. Sometimes in the summer, when the Belgian farmers were working the fields, a forgotten/lost bomb would blow up - still - after all these years.

Un long dimanche de fiancailles by Jean-Pierre Jeunet

A Very Long Engagement by Sébastien Japrisot

Un Long Dimanche De Fiancailles by Sébastien Japrisot

To all: See the last several comments for a good picture of why this will be a great book discussion. Just discussing the title is interesting. :)

André wrote: "Thanks, Bentley.
If you would have translated it word for word it might have been just that - a direct translation - but it would not get the sarcasm.
That's why I never thought twice about the EN..."

Sorry, I am unfortunately a somewhat different view. We have no word for word translation but the meaning should be preserved. Remarque wrote the book 10 years after the war. In Germany, the memory of the war was nearly supplanted by the new age. Therefore demonstrated the German title, the indifference of the Army Headquarters to the victims of the war. Hindenburg and Ludendorff were practice a military government since 1916. Kaiser Wilhelm II was its figurehead. The Parliament had lost control. The offensives were to bring the military success. While there are still thousands of soldiers died, says the notification of the high command, there would be nothing new at the front. The font line had not changed, the dead soldiers were not a mention.

Baseni wrote: "I am unfortunately a somewhat different view..."

Thanks Baseni - no problem with a different view or any discussion. That's what we're here for, right?
As I stated before I always saw "All Quiet" as figuratively speaking: nothing new, nothing changed (I would never have thought he would have meant it literally...) - maybe also because I read the German version before, so I never had a problem with it.

Since I have read the book and do not want to give away anything...for those who have read the book - tread lightly here because we do not want to take away from anybody else's experience; but it is safe to say that this communique was the height of insensitivity for sure.

Wise caution, Bentley. In English, at least, I think the title can have different meanings before you read the book versus after you read it. For those who will read it for the first time, we don't want to spoil that journey of discovery.

I am excited to see so many people who are either German or have read All Quiet in German (or both, of course). I really look forward to your comments and perspectives as we go through the book. Whenever the "Book as a Whole" thread is set up that will be a good place to continue any discussion that gets into spoiler territory. For those of us who have read the book before, we may spend as much time on that thread as on the weekly threads.

Elizabeth,

Are we reading a couple chapters every week or; the whole book beforehand and then discussing a different theme or question every week? I'm going through my e-mails and such and not finding the outline or schedule. I apologize if the answer is sitting right in front of me, though it wouldn't surprise me :-/

Tanya,

Here is the syllabus which is posted:

http://www.africa-eu.com/topic/show/5...

I think that Elizabeth S is doing a little bit of both.

Tanya wrote: "Elizabeth,

Are we reading a couple chapters every week or; the whole book beforehand and then discussing a different theme or question every week? I'm going through my e-mails and such and not fi..."

No problem. Sometimes we hide things when we don't mean to.

All the syllabi for group reads are grouped together in a Syllabi folder, which can be found near the beginning of the group discussion list. For All Quiet, we'll be reading and discussing about a chapter a week. If you want to read ahead, that is fine, but you will need to be careful not to mention anything that happens later than the current week's assignment, so as to avoid spoilers. Here's a link to the schedule for All Quiet:

http://www.africa-eu.com/topic/show/5...

by Erich Maria Remarque

Bentley wrote: "Tanya,

Here is the syllabus which is posted:

http://www.africa-eu.com/topic/show/5..."

Elizabeth S wrote: "ll the syllabi for group reads are grouped together in a Syllabi folder, which can be found near the beginning of the group discussion list. For All Quiet, we'll be reading and discussing about a chapter a week. "

Thank you both for responding. I'm not sure why I didn't remember the Syllabi Thread! I'm off now to go buy another copy of the book. It turns out that the copy I have has two Chapter Tens and no Chapter Five!

(smile) I hope the next copy is better.

Wow, I wonder how that happened? I read a book once that suddenly stopped mid-sentence. It kinda drove me crazy until the library was able to transfer a copy for me from another branch. Turns out there was another chapter and a half. Somehow the last 10-16 pages just weren't put into the book.

Managed to locate a copy and looking forward to reading it. The synopsis reminds me very much of the background behind Wilfred Owen's poem, Dulce et decorum est which as been compulsory in the schools for some time, and rightly so.

As we read, you'll have to let us know how the book compares with the poem. I'm not familiar with Dulce et decorum est. How long of a poem is it?

is very short and considered one of the greatest poems in the English language. Its represented in anthologies etc.

We had an elaborate area discussing this poem and others when we read Keegan's book (Military and War Poetry)

John Keegan

Ah. Goes to show I'm no poetry expert. :) We'll have to put a link to that poem discussion thread in the All Quiet Glossary thread.

abclaret wrote: "Dulce et decorum est is very short and considered one of the greatest poems in the English language. Its represented in anthologies etc."

While I'm not familiar with ALL QUIET, I am with Wilfred Owen and plan to review his works during this month. Excellent poet, he was.


Collected Poems of Wilfred OwenWilfred Owen

Great, Misty. Don't forget a book and author image:

Wilfred Owen

Sounds like I will have to take a few minutes to look Owen up. Everyone says he's the greatest. :)

Wilfred Owen

He is - check out the poetry threads in the first world war area.

I've started reading this one and I'm looking forward to joining in on the discussion once I get through the first half.

We'll be glad to have you join in any time, Sera. I hope you are enjoying your read.

Thanks, Elizabeth. It's a good book, but very depressing - the truth is often not pretty. My version is set up differently chapter-wise but I'm over half-way through so I'm going to jump in on the discussion.